Back in the days of Michael Peace and Steven Wiley, who would have thought that Christian Hip Hop (yes, I said “hip-hop”) would have reached the point where it is included in an official Grammy category, would (along with Christian Rock) account for 25% of Gospel music sales and that Christian MCs would be included on national tours with platinum selling artists? 

I realized that day arrived as I entered Detroit’s Fox Theater to check out one of the most anticipated concert tours of the year.  “HOLY hip hop, BATMAN!”…My heart was racing from the excitement.  No, not just because of Kirk Franklin and Mary Mary, but because I had a feeling that I was about to witness history in the making.  Humbly, out walked my brotha’ boldly spittin’ Christ centered lyrics that immediately tore down pre-conceived hip hop stereotypes, “I never been shot…never did time…”  Those who never experienced Hip Hop ministry were blown away.  The rest of us recited lyrics proudly as we witnessed God open a door for one of the most spoke of MCs of the present Christian Hip Hop movement,  Da’ T.R.U.T.H.

It feels like I haven’t talked to you in 3 years! …That’s crazy!

(Laughing) It hasn’t been that long, not quite!  Yeah, it’s been a minute though.

How have things been going overall?  I know you are just coming off of the Hero Tour with Kirk Franklin and Mary Mary.  Did you expect your latest CD to jump off the way it did?

Not at all!  (Laughing) I DID NOT anticipate this.  I’ve been enjoying it and I feel like the Lord has given me the grace to accomplish His goals in this season.  Ministry has been rich and fruitful—not just traveling and rappin’, but it’s been a lot of fulfilling ministry.

How has the response been?

Overall, it’s been great!  I think everybody from industry folks to pastors and parents are all enjoying the record and they seem to be impacted by the ministry.  I was at Donnie McClurkin’s church recently. He previously supported the Gospel Hip-Hop ministry from a distance because, although he understood it to be a viable tool for ministry, he admitted that he was not a fan of the art form.  He typically has not been able to understand what we were saying (laughing). But, after I ministered, he stated that for the first time in his life he could understand the lyrics and was ministered to himself.  So he invited me back to teach the young men and their fathers at a conference he had a few weeks later.

Let’s rewind a little bit.  THE FAITH is your second official release.  Comparing MOMENT OF TRUTH with THE FAITH, do you prefer one over the other?

Right now I do.  I actually listened to both of them back to back yesterday for the first time because I’m preparing for a potential DVD release and was trying to figure out which songs to do.  THE FAITH is my favorite record right now.  With MOMENT OF TRUTH I was dealt with the idea of maintaining a proper, biblical perspective of this life in light of the one that is to come.  THE FAITH, on the other hand, addresses the issues pertaining to, well… THE FAITH.  In it, I highlighted issues of high priority in the scriptures but low on the radar in the pulpit and in the pews.  I really believe that the content of THE FAITH is what people need to hear right now. It’s relevant and potent and I was heavily involved in its production.

The sound on THE FAITH is different from MOMENT OF TRUTH.  Was that intentional?

Before I'm an MC, I’m an artist...a musician.  So, I sort of just went with what I felt. I think that’s artistry.  Not following the trends, not trying to copy what’s hot at the moment but, going with your gut and what feels good. 

I wanted THE FAITH to be more musical because I’m a musician and I think that what people are hearing when they listen to it is simply the fruit of my creativity.  Like the end of “2 is Better,” when the pianist is playing that solo piece, I think that embellished the quality of the song…or the interlude where Keran and La’Tia (SOUL) are singing the hymn, “What A Friend We Have In Jesus,” it’s real musical.  Those are the things, to me, that put the record over the top.  I was intentional about doing it, but intentional in that I just expressed myself creatively.  I was just going with what I felt.  So, what you hear is the fruit of my creativity. I am not boasting.  I know that it’s all the grace of God!!!!!!!!

Did you have any concerns that you might lose some people?

Yes! (Laughing)  Yes and no.  I think those fears like “oh, they won’t like me anymore” or “man, they won’t be able to appreciate this…this is too far left for them” are natural.  I took comfort knowing that people are looking for something fresh and if a person likes you enough as an artist and a minister they will support you.  I just thought “hey it’s different, but at the end of the day it’s good quality music.  So, let the chips fall where they may.”

On the industry end, the Hip-Hop heads with the 4- and 5-song EP have known about you for years.  Is the industry treating you like a new artist currently and how have you been dealing with that?

Well, in all fairness, because we have been under the mainstream radar for so long we are new artists in the site of many.  You gotta think the first time many people saw me was on TBN, which had a snowball effect and the buzz grew from that point on.  I just think that’s the nature of the industry so it doesn’t bother me.  And the beautiful thing, Kiwi, is that most people see me as an artist and they appreciate my talent, but they see me as a minister as well.  So, by God’s grace I think the industry is attracted to the minister in me and then the music.

You mentioned TBN…let’s address some concerns that I read on a few message boards.  Some were disappointed that you went on TBN due to the fact that their platform is different from what you stand for.  What do you say to that?

Yes…I would agree.  There is a lot of shoddy preaching on TBN—a lot of bad doctrine.  But I don’t think we should ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’ because there is also some quality, healthy ministry on TBN.  The visionaries, Paul and Jan Crouch, have a heart for missions and evangelism and they built TBN as a missionary tool for people all across the world to hear the Gospel.

The intentions of the visionaries are pure and many have come to faith because of TBN.  So, overall they are serving the Great Commission.  It’s exactly what you said—a Christian “platform.”  A pastor from Texas said to me yesterday, “there is one of two things we can do about it: we can sit down and complain, or we can compete.”  I love that!  We can sit home and be mad—put it on blast and talk on the phone about it—or, we can get on there as prophets to the nations and dismantle unhealthy doctrines. It also gives us a chance to say what needs to be said to millions of people at one time, which is perfect for us.

In my case, it provided an opportunity for me to address an issue that many people were struggling with regarding the Hip-Hop culture's place in the Kingdom of God. Look what God did! I was provided an internationally televised platform to speak to EVERYBODY!  As a result of that TBN special, to this day, there are people who come up to me and say that they showed that clip to several pastors and that many of them either repented or it helped to clear up their understanding of this “Hip-Hop thing.”

Do you feel the increase of MCs in Hip-Hop ministry is helping or hurting the cause?

(Sigh) I wrestle with this.  The music of today is basically R&B and Hip-Hop. As a matter of fact, it’s very rare that you hear an R&B song with out a rap in it today. So, Hip-Hop is like the dominant genre of our day.  In all fairness, I can understand why dudes resort to rap. There was a time when every young man sang in the choir—mostly because they didn’t have many other options. But times have changed and now we have more options—one of which is rap. That’s what we like to do and if we can do it in a way that glorifies Him, then why not!

However, the problem is not the fact that everybody wants to rap but that everybody wants to make a living off of it. It’s one thing to rap as a hobby.  You do some local stuff or go to a café, use it as an evangelism tool, etc.  I can see that.  What I think is harmful is it seems like almost every Christian MC wants to ‘get on’…you know, trying to get a deal and that’s the problem.  When you start rapping and you got Da’ T.R.U.T.H., Cross Movement, Lecrae and all these guys in mind and you’re thinking “how can I ‘get on’ like them?”  It becomes about something other than the Great Commission and that’s when we run into problems.  Remember, when we started—The Cross Movement, The Ambassador and the Cross Movement Records (CMR) family—it was only about utilizing our craft to fulfill the Great Commission.  Everything else…God just laid it before us. When I left my job to do it full time, it was because the demand was so great and I had to choose between work and the ministry.  Even to date, everything that we have achieved has been laid before us by God…not because we went chasing after it.

At MegaFest, a dude came up to me and said, “yeah man, I rap too…you know?  Yeah and…you’re hot, yeah, but…um, I don’t wanna’ say I’m hotter than you, but I’m HOT!” (Laughing) …You see what I mean?  It’s like they still have the spirit of the world on them—the spirit of secular Hip-Hop is competition. When I went to the ATL, I came across several MCs that basically exalt themselves.  So, to me the problem is (a) when you are chasing a deal, chasing popularity, fame, etc. and (b) when you’re doing it void of discipleship.  When you haven’t been injected with the nutrients from the Scriptures that are necessary for healthy growth and development and are provided a public platform, you’re bound to want the wrong things for yourself and others and prone to abuse that platform.

I heard of a conversation you had with an MC who spoke of how their goal was to be successful in ministry to the point of being able to make a living off of it and do it full time and they said that you had a very negative response.  Can you please give clarity on this subject?

Yeah, I don’t think we should pursue that, honestly.  The thing we have to realize is this, there’s something that every Christian must do, ok?  If you are called into the ministry, whether you are in a wheelchair, deaf, working in corporate America or playing soccer…whatever your station in life, your responsibility is to fulfill the Great Commission.  Even if you can’t speak and have to use sign language…our responsibility is to fulfill the Great Commission.  Everything else is negotiable from God’s perspective. 

So, I was playing soccer and using that as an inroad to preach the Gospel but then I broke my foot…I STILL have to fulfill the Great Commission.  I can’t play soccer but I still have to find a way to spread God’s fame, correct?  So, this is what I tell people, Gospel Hip-Hop first of all, from the industry perspective is still a small niche market.  You might find our CDs in Best Buy, you might not.  It’s not Kirk Franklin, it’s not CeCe Winans, it’s not Tye Tribbett, it’s not Donnie McClurkin, it’s not KiKi Sheard…you are going to find their CDs in every store.  You may or may not find our CDs in every store and that’s because it’s a niche of a niche. Gospel music in general, from an industry perspective, is considered a niche market and if that’s the case, how much more is Gospel Hip-Hop a niche of a niche.

Though it is gaining more popularity, it is still way under the radar. People still think that Kirk Franklin's music is Gospel Hip-Hop so we have a long way to go.  Therefore, I always encourage people that are trying to make a living doing Gospel Hip-Hop to take these things into consideration before they endeavor to make a full time commitment, especially if they have families.  Furthermore, I don’t think its enough to just rap. If your only goal is to be a Gospel rapper I think you should keep your day job. I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I'm trying to be helpful.  The reason I went into the ministry full time is because it was bigger than rap. If it's just about rap then as my brother Lecrae says, after all your rhymes are written and your songs are recorded, then what? Are you going to sit home all day and watch TV?

This may sound harsh but I know plenty of people that do.  Even in the secular world…you only see a few people that actually make it.  As big as secular rap is, very few of them are really successful.  I mean there are plenty of one-hit wonders but that’s not what I'm talking about. An artist may have a hit, but for the most part it’s been the same staples for the past five to ten years…Jay-Z, 50 Cent and a few others.  Everyone else has one hit and they’re gone. 

In the Gospel market, scale that down 100 times but you have the same idea…a few people that God seems to elevate for a season and then they will eventually fade out and pass the baton.  So, the chances of someone making it to the point of being able to provide for their family as a Gospel Hip-Hopper alone are slim.  Now for the spiritual perspective—back to the Great Commission…the thing that we must understand is that “Many are the plans of a man’s heart, but the tongue of the Lord answers.”  Now that’s not saying don’t make plans, but expect God to do whatever He deems as being in the best interest of own agenda…His greater plan. 

So, the things Christians have to set their hearts on is the fact that God may not give them what they want, and we see that all the time…now, that’s not popular teaching today, but it’s very Biblical.  That’s not saying always hope for the worst, but it is to say this…whether you blow up or not, whether I’m rappin’ or not, the thing that I'm obligated to do is GLORIFY GOD, EDIFY BELIEVERS, AND PRESENT THE GOSPEL TO THE LOST. I must fulfill God’s plan.  That’s basically where I go with people.  I don’t tell them not to dream but at the same time there are people with unrealistic dreams. 

Look at it like this, how many dudes actually get in the NBA?  Out of however many thousands who desire to, out of every college in the country there are 500 picks.  There are something like six picks for each team and only one first-round draft pick.  Out of 500 there is only one first-round draft pick for each team.  So, if someone says, “I want to make it in the NBA” you don’t say ‘don’t dream’…you just tell them ‘don’t put all of your eggs in one basket.’  And when it comes to us…we didn’t try, that’s the thing!  There’s no formula to what we did and when I say "us" I mean everybody from the Cross Movement Records family to Lecrae to Trip Lee…there’s no formula to what we did…we didn’t try!  So, when I talk to people that’s what I tell them.  I’m not trying to shoot people’s dreams down but I am trying to get them to think as realistically as possible.

So, to those who say, “but we can reach more souls if we have a record deal or if we have the finances to do it… that’s why we are desiring this and reaching for this,” what would you say?

I would say, “Amen”.  (Sigh)  …It’s just so tough Ki…I mean, because no one knows the intentions of man but God.  However, I really do doubt that that’s the sincerity of most people’s hearts.  I really do…but if the person is sincere, amen, you do need resources, etc. but you know what you can ask people Ki?  What does winning souls look like?  Does it mean having a spot on BET or having a spot on secular radio or does it look like something else?  Does it look like something else besides being on the BET Awards?  Is it just seeing Kirk on a video saying “in the name of Jesus?”  Not necessarily…is there any merit in that, yes…it’s a witness, but if you just see that, is that the same as winning souls?  In a time where DMX’s new song is full of “in the name of Jesus”…in a time where Jesus is sooo popular, the question becomes, is seeing and hearing Jesus oriented people the same as winning souls?  Having a spot on secular radio, is that the same as winning souls?  Can it work towards it? …Absolutely.  But I think that we have to redefine our understanding of winning souls and what it’s going to take to actually win this generation over.  It’s going to take a lot more than rap.

Da’ T.R.U.T.H., thanks for taking the time out.  Do you have anything else burning on your heart?

As I have been traveling extensively on and off the Hero tour, one of the things I have become keenly aware of is the need for ministry leaders and industry gatekeepers to truly understand Gospel Hip-Hop ministry’s true potential—an evangelism and discipleship tool for youth, young adults and all lovers of the unadulterated truth in a format attractive to lovers of Hip-Hop and those affected by its culture (ages 13-50+).  So many only see it as an alternative form of entertainment for their kids (ages 8-13) rather than a ministry tool for imparting weighty Biblical truths to young adults.

What encouraged me most when I ministered at Donnie’s church was that he courageously opened his pulpit to me to share truths with his entire congregation—not only his youth.  He actually dismissed his children to attend children’s church.  Those left ranged from youth to golden saints.  He trusted the heart of the ministry the Lord has called me to and was truly blessed when he saw how it visibly impacted his entire flock—even the church mothers in the front row!

We are ministers first.  Rap is simply the art form through which the Lord has chosen to use us.  The truths that we generally share in our songs and the ministry that accompanies them are very weighty.  And though the art form does catch the attention of the children, they can only spiritually grasp bits and pieces of the messages.  This does not mean that they should not be exposed to our ministries.  But what good is it for our kids to listen to Da’ T.R.U.T.H., The Cross Movement, The Ambassador, Phanatik, Flame, J.R., Lecrae, shai linne, Timothy Brindle, Trip Lee, Corey Red and Precise, Richie Righteous, Todd Bangz and many others (visit www.datruth.net or www.whyhiphop.com for a more extensive list) when their uncles and aunts or even moms and dads, who influence them on a daily basis, are still listening to Jay-Z and 50 Cent—or even worse, operate out of a carnal world view?

The vision burning in our hearts is to teach and disciple leaders (the 18 and over crowd) that they may lead and train the younger.  I call these leaders the On Duty Movement—a people who understand the power of Gospel Hip-Hop ministry and are committed to using it to infuse the Culture with God's value system.

To do this, we are going to need pastors, ministry leaders and industry gatekeepers—such as radio announcers, media and retailers—to partner with us by embracing Gospel Hip Hop ministry as just that…ministry—not entertainment.  What does that look like? 

1.      Leaders—The pastors host events where they invite their entire congregations rather than only their kids.  This opens the door for adults to experience the ministry for themselves so that they can harness it as a tool for their own growth and the development of their youth.

I’ve had parents come up to me after concerts sharing testimonies about how my CDs have challenged them to grow in their walk with Christ and that, although they never liked rap, they now had to buy an additional copy for their child because they didn’t want to part with theirs.  Others have testified how the ministry I’ve shared makes them want to run and read their Bibles.  That’s the kind of thing that makes me want to jump up on a couch like Tom Cruise did on the Oprah show!  (Laughing) That’s why we do what we do! We want to point the generation to the Lord Jesus Christ so that they can fall in love with Him and passionately study his unpacked heart—His word.

2.      Gospel Radio Announcers—The Gospel radio announcers play our music.  Yes, it’s different and the church is unsure and even skeptical about it but the world is forcing the poison of filthy secular Hip-Hop down the throats of this generation.  They entice them with “hot” beats and catchy hooks and play the same songs so many times that the same songs are becoming the substance of their beliefs and value systems.  We offer the truth in the format they love. Not as an alternative but an antidote.  How will they receive the antidote if the Gospel announcers don’t play our songs? 

3.      Retailers—Christian retailers stock our CDs, shelf them in visible places, educate their shoppers about our music/ministry and its use as a powerful tool for evangelism and discipleship and encourage them to purchase it.

Jesus said the harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few.  It’s going to take a fearless, bold and collective effort. That’s why I call it the On Duty Movement!

I would like to end by encouraging God’s people to fight hard and persevere until the end because those that persevere to the end shall be saved.  Jesus said that there is coming a time when even the elect will be deceived.  My prayer is that we would be guided by Biblical principles, practice Christian ethics, spread the fame of Christ and endure until the end.

For more information on Da’ T.R.U.T.H., please visit www.datruth.net, or www.crossmovementrecords.com.